brad_rector

Aftermarket Internal Options

44 posts in this topic

Okay, so I've been doing a lot of research and emailing a lot of companies and I'm coming to a dead end besides having the parts custom ordered and spending my life savings. So.....

When it comes to the 4b12 2.4 engine, I am aware that the aftermarket parts market is slim to none.

What I'm really looking for is options for our internals as far as forged pistons and rods and also what kind of power the stock sleeves will hold?

So my question is, has anyone installed FORGED pistons and rods that are made for the 4b12 2.4?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So after a little research...here is what I have about the 4b12 compared to the Caliber SRT-4. I know there are threads already, but this is some good info.

The CALIBER and CALIBER SRT-4 have the same bore (88m) and stroke (97mm) as the 4b12 2.4 Lancer. Along with this, the stock Caliber has the same exact compression as the Lancer. The difference with the Caliber SRT-4 is it has a FORGED crankshaft as well as FORGED rods, pistons are cast.

So with this said, I'm trying to get crankshaft measurements from the Caliber SRT-4 to see exactly if the rods will be able to be bolted to the Lancer 4b12 crankshaft.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Caliber SRT-4 and Lancer 4B12 crankshaft seals are the same part # through Timken 224200S.

Front and rear motor mounts are the same part number. This is pretty straight forward being the same block. Just posting in case someone finds a Caliber SRT-4 mount, they can use it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another awesome find. The Intake valves are the same....I could not find info on the exhaust valves.

Intake valves, P/N: DNJ IV167

Thrust washer sets are the same! P/N: DNJ TW167

Also, the head gaskets ARE NOT the same!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where did you find all this information? Post up links in case anyone else is looking for similar information.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The GEMA engines span quite a few cars now. We might find upgrades in parts for related vehicles.

I've wondered in the past if the Dodge Warhawk and its 6MT would just bolt in.

Sadly, there were less than 1000 SRT4s sold in the US in 2008-2009.

I think our cranks have to be forged in the 4b12. I may have some specs for internals on the laptop.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The GEMA engines span quite a few cars now. We might find upgrades in parts for related vehicles.

I've wondered in the past if the Dodge Warhawk and its 6MT would just bolt in.

Sadly, there were less than 1000 SRT4s sold in the US in 2008-2009.

I think our cranks have to be forged in the 4b12. I may have some specs for internals on the laptop.

Well, just thinking to myself the 6 speed should bolt up because it's the same block. If you have internal specs, post them up. I ran through the list of GEMA engines that have the 2.4L with the same specs, there is a few of them, but none of them that would carry anymore of an aftermarket market than the Caliber SRT-4. Hell, the Caliber SRT-4 doesn't have a huge market with aftermarket parts. I could barely find anything.

Well, my biggest question is how different, if at all are the 2 cranks. That would help determine a lot of things.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where did you find all this information? Post up links in case anyone else is looking for similar information.

The part numbers that were cross referenced came from RockAuto.

The other information came from a Dodge spec sheet I downloaded and information on wiki.

Sources:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_4B1_engine#4B12

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_World_engine

Here is the Dodge Caliber SRT-4 Spec Sheet:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=dTs7VbbnBczmoAS38IC4Aw&url=http://www.drivesrt.com/assets/docs/CaliberSRT4/2008CaliberSRT4specifications.pdf&ved=0CCoQFjAD&usg=AFQjCNHsAd57s3vvnIKt0JTqRVdONjWtIA

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To my knowledge and research, the head gaskets are not the same...

With the part numbers not matching from Felpro, my only guess is that the Caliber SRT-4 h/g is thicker if he got it to work correctly.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also if this is the case, the stock rods on the Caliber SRT-4 are forged, but if you wanted to get per say K1 forged rods they would fit. And also any aftermarket piston made for the Caliber SRT-4 should also fit.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for aftermarket internals, you probably won't find something designed specifically for the 4b12. I'm sure Wiseco & Eagle have parts that will do the job, provided we have all the correct dimensions. I think the 4b12 crank & rods would have to be forged based on the calculated piston speed and RPM it reaches frequently. So they should be capable of handling a fair bit of power.

The caliber 2.4T uses the same main bearings and rod bearings as our 4b12. Front, rear mains, & other features may be another story entirely, pictures would help clear up a lot of confusion. It also uses a different head for the turbo versions, much like our EVO vs our Lancers. Perhaps we can frankenstein an EVO head on to a Caliber block, swap the sensors to the new block and use the EVOX ECU?

This link has some diagrams & part numbers that may be relevant.

http://www.mymoparpart.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_product=49370223&ukey_assembly=6382806

These are the specs I have for the 4b12, some are calculated from other values, and some are assumption, namely RA height. SCR, Wrist pin height, & CC Volume are calculated, but I suspect they are very close to correct. If we get accurate measurements, I'd love to update my calculator with solid measurements.

Engine Specs
Peak Power 168@6000
Peak Torque 167@4100
Firing Order 1-3-4-2
Crank Angle 180 deg
Stock Redline 6602 rpm
Cylinders 4 pot
Bore 88 mm
Bore Pitch 96 mm
Stroke 97 mm
Rod Length 143.75 mm
Block Height 230.1 mm
RA Height 230.1 mm
PistonHt 51.5 mm
PistonCompHt 37.85 mm
PistonToDeckHt 0 mm
HG Height 0.9 mm
HG Diameter 88 mm

Volumes
Disp (Cyl) 589.9659676 cc
Head Volume (EST) 57 cc
HG Vol 5.47391104 cc
Piston Dish/Dome (+/-) -0.3 cc
RA Volume (+/-) 0 cc
Common Volume 62.17391104 cc
Total Disp 2359.86387 cc

Ratios
SCR (Calculated) 10.48896342 :1
SCR (Advertised) 10.5 :1
Stroke/Bore 1.102272727 :1
Rod/Stroke 1.481958763 :1

Head Specs
Valves/Cyl 4
Plug to Piston Ht 14.72 mm
VVT Sproket Teeth 54 6.666666667

Cam Specs
Intake
Duration 244 deg
Centerline 122 deg
Valve Dia 35 mm
Valve Lift 9.3 mm
VVT Range 40 deg
IVO (BTDC) 0 deg
IVC (ABDC) 24 deg
Exhaust
Duration 224 deg
Centerline 112 deg
Valve Dia 29 mm
Valve Lift 8.2 mm
VVT Range 30 deg
EVO (BBDC) 24 deg
EVC (ATDC) 0 deg

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes! I also believe atleast our crank is forged. I'm not quite sure about the rods, compared to the Caliber forged rods they are tiny, but that doesn't mean they still aren't forged.

I will be taking out the Lancer 2.4 GTS Pistons and rods out of my spare engine in a few hours I will upload pictures.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now my question of all questions is, how much power safely can our sleeves hold since it's an open deck design?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I'm seeing, other open deck engines can handle up to 20psi, which by rough math should put down ~390hp. The caliber supposedly runs 10-17psi on stock internals, and by diagrams, it also has an open face. So I'd call 400 a rough celing for an open face block.

Here's some more info with claims of sustained usage of several years at 20psi on stock internals.

http://www.topix.com/forum/autos/dodge-neon-srt-4/T6LDO63I2KQDF370C

Awhile back I found a place in CT that installs T-Sleeves in open face blocks like ours. I suspect it's expensive.

Engine Porn: http://larryspower.com/engine/Sleeves.html

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes! I also believe atleast our crank is forged. I'm not quite sure about the rods, compared to the Caliber forged rods they are tiny, but that doesn't mean they still aren't forged.

I will be taking out the Lancer 2.4 GTS Pistons and rods out of my spare engine in a few hours I will upload pictures.

First of all, Caliber SRT4 pistons are a direct drop in. There are a couple people who have done this already.

Rods are forged. There are very few cast rods in any car anymore. They are thinner than the caliber rods though, and caliber rods are a direct drop in. Couple people have proved this as well.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is also a block guard that is made for the SRT4 that is a direct fit for the 4b12.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we can conclude that mostly all of the Caliber SRT4 internals WILL fit in the 4b12?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all, Caliber SRT4 pistons are a direct drop in. There are a couple people who have done this already.

Rods are forged. There are very few cast rods in any car anymore. They are thinner than the caliber rods though, and caliber rods are a direct drop in. Couple people have proved this as well.

Who or where did you get the info about the rods being forged?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to confirm that the 2009 4B12 2.4L GTS crankshaft is indeed forged.

I tore into my spare engine today and discovered the 4bB12 crankshaft has a 'thick parting line' on the counter weights and not a 'thin parting line' which makes it forged.

100_3847cp.jpg

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, forged it is. The rods should show similar traits if they are forged too. I wonder if CX Racing makes any forged h beam rods for the caliber? I've read they are the same billets that Eagle rods are made from.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, forged it is. The rods should show similar traits if they are forged too. I wonder if CX Racing makes any forged h beam rods for the caliber? I've read they are the same billets that Eagle rods are made from.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, forged it is. The rods should show similar traits if they are forged too. I wonder if CX Racing makes any forged h beam rods for the caliber? I've read they are the same billets that Eagle rods are made from.

I will tear into it more tomorrow, it was getting dark. But to answer your question, no CX Racing does not....But, I did find that K1 makes forged H-beam connecting rods for the Caliber SRT-4.

http://turbosunleashed.com/shop/dodge-caliber-billet-connecting-rods-p-453.html

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's not a bad price either! Looks like that's probably going to be the best option for rods.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's not a bad price either! Looks like that's probably going to be the best option for rods.

I'm also going to twist this thread a little bit. After some more research, the K1 rods fit more cars cross matching that part number.

2003-2009 PT Cruiser Turbo

2008-2009 Caliber SRT-4 Turbo

2003-2005 Neon SRT-4 Turbo

So are we about to discover that the Neon SRT-4 rods will also fit in the 4B12 Lancer? This will open up a lot of possibilities.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now